"THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE BOYS! THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF IT!"

[behindthec]

cut for hugeness, polls, brainstorming, recs, etc.



a few recs:

http://dys-topia.livejournal.com/4819.html
SHE WROTE IT!!!!!!!!! *dances* don't ask me why i like this pairing; it is too complex to explain. HOWEVER, everyone must write it now, in order to win my eternal love. please please please please please??

http://emmuzka.livejournal.com/296825.html
this is really disturbing, but amazing. read the warnings. i would LOVE a sequel.

http://community.livejournal.com/diedandreborn/46037.html
utterly delicious. oh god. more of this forever. sleepysex with top!ryan is my favourite. nnngggghh.

random, but BEST MOTHERFUCKING ICON EVER. the_randomist... ily.

also totally random, but something popped up in my gmail ads yesterday and it took me a moment to figure out why, and it's because the following line is in chapter 8 (i write all fic in gmail drafts): "Brendon steps outside, out the glass doors and down the path, past the hammock until his bare feet meet sun-warmed wood." HERE IS THE SCREENSHOT:



can't stop laughing, omfg!

so, okay. i really wish people wouldn't go anon just to tell me something they think i don't want to hear. (exception being when i know who you are but for privacy reasons you go anon to say something; that's FINE). if you go anon just to say something you're afraid to say logged in (said exception aside), dude, i'm not going to dislike you for expressing your opinion, especially when it's done nicely. i respect all opinions expressed maturely and politely. i don't care what you say to me; i have no idea who you are; even non-anon you're still just an icon and a username. we're all open and friendly here. don't be afraid.

i hate how so many people here seem to be (and often admit to once being) intimidated by me. what the hell is so off-putting about me? i talk to everyone. i answer every comment, message, and email (eventually). i hold open house posts for lurkers, where i've made some of my best friends. how am i intimidating? i don't get it. :(

i also i wanted to reply publicly to that comment about biting off more than i can chew, fic-wise, to explain how i write. first off, i am not planning on writing all these fics at once. :P i'll be choosing one, and the others will be put on hold. the way i work is, i have to write whatever fic i am obsessed with at the time. so i may have tons of ideas and planned-out fics in my mind, but when i actually sit down and commit to something, it has to be what i'm excited/obsessed/passionate about at that given moment; once i actually start writing it, i generally stay obsessed till i finish. this is why i so rarely take prompts or requests, and when i do, i make a huge prompt post and pick the one i connect with most. i have to really *want* to write the fic; i can't write based on what you guys want or when. for it to turn out well, it has to be what i want, when i want it. that sounds so selfish, but that's the only way it works. otherwise i won't enjoy it, and the quality will suffer. make sense?

also, the reason i'm so excited about this fic is because it would be my first real AU, and you know i've always been very meh about AUs in the past b/c they don't feel real to me, and i'm big on canon. but canon is stressing me out too much lately; i'm too attached to it, too affected by it, too dependent on it; i think it would be really emotionally healthy for me to write something that i have complete control over; where it doesn't matter if ryan's doing coke IRL or brendon has a girlfriend. plus i think it's a very important transitional step for me to take if i ever want to write original fiction someday, which i do. plus it's just indulgent and FUN, and i want fic to be fun again.

so, there's my reasoning.

moving on! okay, so clearly, there are as many people for kilts as against them. i personally still find them kind of ridiculous, though the fact that someone mentioned they were generally worn without underwear is a definite plus. idk. what do you think? feel free to post photographic support for your opinion in the comments, otherwise i'm going with no.

[Poll #1384130]

i could always set this in ireland too, considering i have a much stronger mental memory of irish accents than i do scottish (and i even PREFER irish accents). We went with scottish b/c sara had heard that ryan is part scottish, and we know brendon is, but… idk, i could definitely go irish. thoughts?

[Poll #1384131]

also, bagpipes are out; i just went with them initially 'cause it was obvious. :P pianos, so much sexier than bagpipes. also, my first historical request: what other instruments were there in late 19th century scotland? anything guitar-esque? AUs are much easier for me to swallow (lol) if they maintain the basic canon of the characters being musicians. i want ryan to play something. also, i have some ideas for what to do with jon and spence and other bandom peeps, but if you have thoughts for them, let's hear it. i'm considering a side of joncer, maybe. idk. kinda cliche.

last night before bed my brain developed about 2k worth of dialogue for this fic, which is. a very good or very bad thing. some more brainstorming with soph last night:

Sophie: me: AND BY "THE WORLD" HE MEANS "MY DICK"
Sophie: WELL YES
lols
me: YESSSSS :D
or maybe oh god
5:11 PM
maybe he and brendon had this adorable ~courtship before
and they ksised and stuff
but never actually had sex
and before they could, ryan was sold as a slave!
Sophie: awww
me: so when they meet up again years later, they get to have their first time!
Sophie: i think they should flirt
me: total epic faily flirting
Sophie: def
me: brenodn can bring him fucking FLOWERS and stuff
5:12 PM
Sophie: omgggggg
and Ryan's all blushy and Idk-what-to-do-with-this-affection
me: i knowwwwww
Sophie: but also smiley
me: and they have to run off to the park at night to be alone, 'cause, ryan's dad
5:13 PM
Sophie: yess
and pls bden has to hrow pebbles at ryan's window
me: OF COURSE.
and climb the tree to his window while wearing his kilt :D
Sophie: AND RYAN CLIMBS DOWN AND IS FAILY AND BDEN HAS TO CATCH HIM
me: YES!!!!
5:14 PM
and they are all tangled and blushy on the ground
Sophie: like in the making of that green gentleman video
me: :LSKEJR:LIEFE YES!!!!!
that gif makes my life
Sophie: and bden's just like eeeeeeeee, I caught a ryro
gif?
i has no gif
just the dvd lol
me: EEEEEEE
oh, well, gifs of it have been made lol
5:15 PM
Sophie: well. yes
AND THE MOON IS OUT. AND RYAN IS PRETTY. AND BRENDON IS LIKE "... you're pretty"
5:16 PM
and it is cold so he has to give ryan is coat
except then ryan is a girl
lol
i fail at making them boys
me: EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
THEY DONT' HAVE TO BE BOYS IN THIS
THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF IT
Sophie: YESSSSSS \o/
5:17 PM
maybe they should nearly kiss but then Ryan sez he has to go home
and Bden thinks they can ~nxt time
and then Ryan gets made a sex slave
me: AWWWWWWWWWWWW
ASKLERJAOFAPO3I
nooooo!!!
they have to have one kiss!!!
5:18 PM
Sophie: hahaha
fiiiiine
is your fic
lol
me: ONE KISS
BEFORE YEARS OF MISERY
come on
i just need to figure out how he gets all ~stolen. or if his father ends up broke and actually sells him. :/
5:19 PM
Sophie: HAHA I SEX OK
UM. SEZ
me: HAHAHAHA
you sex okay
Sophie: i do ok
i thinks he gets sold :/
me: i knowwww ugh
5:20 PM
Sophie: which is like. gah.
me: i KNOW
Sophie: and can Bden get pissed at his dad?
or something?
me: yeah, totally
i see his dad eventually committing suicide though
once he realizes what he's done
maybe he was drunk when he sold him
Sophie: yeah
makes sense. in a morbid way
me: UGH POOR RYAN
5:21 PM
Sophie: why are we writing such depressing aus?
me: I DON'T KNOW
Sophie: they are aus. WE COULD HAVE UNICORNS
me: KIK!!!!!
er, LOL!!!
Sophie: lolol
me: YES
BRENODN RESCUES RYAN ON A UNICORN
LIKE IN PRIZONER OF AZKABAN
prisoner, even
Sophie: OMG YES
me: AND ITS NAME IS SPARKLES
Sophie: omg lol
5:22 PM
:D
okay. srs bsnss

*headdesk* that last bit was a joke. most of this is a joke. :P

what i wanted is for them to have a kiss (or maybe sex, once), and then the next day ryan is sold into slavery. brendon is present for it all, he's hanging onto the bars on the back of the carriage where ryan is locked in, their fingers overlapping as brendon promises him, "i'll come for you, i promise." and such begins the Quest.

also, thoughts for what ryan's dad's shop is? what kind of business? i have some ideas for how ry and bden meet; i think ryan sees him around a few times before, gets caught staring, etc., and then he finally runs into him (literally, b/c, cute) in the marketplace one day. and is utterly faily and shy and ends up running off. but bden just smiles after him because he's all hearteyes and stuff. ugh, so many ideas swarming in my head. all i want to do is sit and write them down all day, and instead i have to work. :(

i will jot down this one moment i don't want to forget. ryan and brendon sneak off during one point in their faily ~courtship and spend the afternoon by the river or something, sprawled on their backs watching the sun, and the subject of death comes up, and ryan talks about how you have to live each moment, b/c you could die the next (in typical melodramatic, morbid ross fashion :P), and bden's kinda quiet... and that night is the night he throws pebbles at ryan's window in the middle of the night (\o/!), and ryan opens up and lets him in (AHEM) and he's like wtf are you doing here dumbass, my dad will ACTUALLY MURDER YOU if he finds out. and bden just crowds him against the wall, breathless, their foreheads touching, hands joined, and says, "i know, i know, i just couldn't, what if we died and i'd never told you?" and ry's like, "told me what?" and bren says, "that i love you," like it's the most obvious thing in the world, and kisses him. UGH MY HEART. i really, really want them to have sex that one night, and then the next day ryan gets taken. :'( but, i also love the idea of them having their First Time years later... y'know... um... after ryan's been a SEX SLAVE for however many years, so, okay, maybe not. :P though, bden could teach him how sex is ~beautiful. *eyeroll* clicheeeeeeeeeee, ack! thoughts?

sigh. my brain. my life. enough of this nonsense.

Comments

[lolab.livejournal.com]

aseljkkafopaw3oa!!! you are epic! this is exactly the kind of stuff i need, thank you! yeah, i have no idea how any of this works, and i want to keep it at least relatively realistic. you're awesome, thanks.

my thing was going to be, brendon sees ryan on stage (he's in town on business and maybe the ppl he's reluctantly meeting with drag him to this place; like how sleazy businessmen meet at strip clubs nowadays :P). he's all, aslkjfoawjp, so he goes to ryan's ~boss/master? (haven't figured out what ryan actually IS yet; slave, courtesan, what are the rules? b/c he's treated decently at this place, but he still has to be enslaved somehow) and is like, him, i want him for the night. so he gets ryan for the night just so he can be like LOOK HERE I AM, and the next morning he tells ryan's ~boss, "i want to buy him," but the guy (pete :P) won't sell. ryan's too good for business. so then brendon plans the heist lol, only, he ends up getting captured too.

[j-plash.livejournal.com]

OMG Brendon ends up captured too XD Lmao. Excellent. Awesome.

Okay, I'm going to flip around the order of this comment and cutpaste my conclusions up to the start then all the questions behind them, 'cause it came out long and rambling and exceeded comment length again XD

The answer I see as most logical/workable to he's treated decently at this place, but he still has to be enslaved somehow would be he's treated well now because he doesn't fight anymore, but he's enslaved by the knowledge that if he did try to fight, he would be reminded why he submitted in the first place, and the place's security is too good for him to ever escape.

Don't think first about the timeframe when Brendon shows up - think about the timeframe when Ryan is first brought to Paris.

What does Ryan do/say the first time he's told 'hey innocent kid who's never had sex, you're going to work as an expensive piece of ass in this brothel and you're not going to argue'? He has to fight, and he has to be forced to submit (or you have Ryan willingly becoming a prostitute, which kills your romantic storyline :P). By the time Brendon comes along he can be treated however well you like, especially if he's sort of meant to be expensive and high class and whatever, but there has to be this dark presence in the background. The fact that it's forced is important.

You need to know exactly what he's being made to do, and how he's been made to do it. I think it could be hard to pull the place off without some past element of violence or the threat of it. You don't have to have Ryan being beaten up all the time or anything, but I think it will make a lot more sense if there was violence at some point early on.

[j-plash.livejournal.com]

Okay, now the rambling considerations behind that, lol. This is much less coherent than the first part :P

The most important question would be - is he having sex with people against his will or not? That's sort of the basic question. Is this a sex slave fic. If the answer's yes, then you can still work with a sort of 'treated well so long as you behave' thing and say he's long since stopped fighting.

If not, you're dealing with a whole different kettle of fish (like, a whole let less angst, for a start :P). I'm not sure how that would work with the whole buying him for a night thing, though. That pretty much suggests he's a prostitute. Which almost has to be in an enslaved, unwilling way...unless you write like a crazy Stockholm Syndrome thing, which could be interesting, but really, really hard. An option, though. A really, really complicated option XD

Assuming he is having sex with people, though (that is to say, to get it clear, being repeatedly raped on a regular basis), since that seems to be where it's going...? Then given that slavery's not legal, he has to be kept there by either violence, the threat of it, or the threat of *something* else. It doesn't have to exist in the timeframe Brendon comes into; you can just make it there's a bunch of big burly guards, so Ryan could *try* to escape, sure, but there's no point, so he's stopped trying. You still need the threat of *something* to make him do the sex slave thing, though. He's not going to have sex with these people unless he's being made to in some way. If you want to avoid violence/past violence...I don't know. Food deprivation's an option, but is kind of just as bad...there has to be *something*. Otherwise you've got Ryan voluntarily up and becoming a prostitute, which kind of kills your dramatic plot :P So. Treated well, yes, but there has to be some kind of privation he was put through when he was first taken and refused to do it, and it's the threat of that that keeps him in line.

The above is why casting fic characters as the 'master' figure makes me nervous, lol. If you're happy for Pete to be the 'bad guy', then it's cool, easy. If you don't want him to be the bad guy, you're going to have to do something weird with the power structure/info flow for Pete to be in charge and not be a villain enslaving Ryan and forcing him to have sex with people for money. But yeah, casting Pete as the bad guy is fine, you just need to be aware you're doing it and actually write him as the antagonist, or you end up with the 'but he's really an awesome cool person who other characters adore even though he's selling rape and that's all good' that makes a lot of slavefic soooo cringeworthy.

- I LOVE THAT BRENDON GETS CAPTURED TOO XD I have no idea how it'll work, but it sounds hilarious XD Even though it's probably not, lol :P

- Oh, that has to be taken into account with the 'nature of the establishment' as well. If Brendon's being captured, then this is going to have to be considerably black market and shady beneath the veneer of the stage show - it's not just buying existing slaves, it's kidnapping wealthy young guys who piss them off and forcing them into slavery. That adds another element to the dynamic.

I think I've repeated myself like 13 times now, but 'what Ryan is'
is a really important element to have down, 'cause it'll shape everything else about the story from when he's taken on. You need to know exactly what he's being made to do, and how he's been made to do it.

I hope I don't sound really negative :S I don't mean any of it negatively, I think this is going to be completely madcore. It's just *so* easy to screw slavefic up. And I really want this to be awesome XD Hehehe. But yeah. Main thoughts up top, lol. One day I'll learn to be succinct :S

[lolab.livejournal.com]

no, right, this is exactly what i need. i've only read maybe 3 slavefics, but you're right, they gloss over so much and so many things are "cringeworthy" and that's what i want to avoid.

the thing is, i didn't see ryan going into the high-class brothel/cabaret place until much later. i want him to be sort of sold around for a couple years, give him a real Journey, y'know (you know me, cinematic to the bitter end), have him be just a regular dirty slave for awhile. one of the places he ends up at, he meets spencer. somewhere else, maybe he meets jon. or pete. idk. i want him to have a whole slew of experiences.

i'm not sold on pete as the bad guy. it's just the obvious choice. i'd rather use someone else, not even necessarily a bandom person. just make him an original character. idk. i don't know how much of a role i want him to have yet.

[j-plash.livejournal.com]

Oh please please make the bad guy an original character then? :D *puppy dog eyes* Then you can be straightforward about the fact that Ryan has been enslaved and raped and it's horrible, and not be trying to dance around excuses for it.

Oh right, awesome. Yep, k, so on the trajectory I was talking about in the comment I just wrote, the broken stage, the violence, the breaking and the initial submission and then the slow change, the disappearance of who he was and his weaknesses, his rebirth as this proudly self-loathing, faithless, bitter but strong, so strong person all happens in these other places, and then it's that person, that strong, stunning, breathtakingly furious, intense person who is picked up as sort of omg yes by the cabaret and its high-class/expensive but super-shady brothel.

On cringeworthiness - slavefic turns into cringe when rape becomes eroticised. It's pretty much as simple as that. There are other bits and pieces, but 90% of the time it's one spin or another on that. When we forgive the bad guy, when we turn a relationship involving slavery and rape into a ship, when it's hot that -insert anything to do with rape/forced submission- those are the big places where slavefic slips. There are loads of reasons it happens, but it happens a *lot*, which means it can be really easy to slip into sideways. You just have to keep it in mind. I will always sound like a pretentious asshat talking about this, but it's just one of those things I feel really strongly about (it's the reason I first started writing about and researching slavefic years ago).

[lolab.livejournal.com]

yeah. i will. this is an important step for writing original fiction. so yay! i want to make him an interesting character, though. like i want you to hate him, but at the same time, find yourself wavering.

right. yes. to all. \o/!!!

re: eroticism, yes. that makes sense. i also don't want it to be one of those "so-and-so bought you for me but i'm nice, i'll never touch you like that" and then the slave comes to trust them and wants to get intimate anyway. which is sort of what i had planned for spencer (spencer's dad buys ryan for him), but i don't know that anything sexual would happen between them, so. which kind of blows. i mean, i don't want ryan's first positive sexual experience to be with brendon years later. or do i? i don't know if i want him to have some idea that, yes, this conceivably CAN be good.

[lolab.livejournal.com]

i don't know if i want him to have some idea that, yes, this conceivably CAN be good.

*meaning, i don't know if i want him to ALREADY have that idea, before he meets brendon, or if i want brendon to be the one to finally ~show him. which, again, cliche, but. intense. idk.

[j-plash.livejournal.com]

I think if the thing with Spencer happened in the early years, the second year after he was taken or something, the idea that it could be good would be crushed out of him and turned to poison by the time we get to Brendon. I think whatever way it goes, he's going to have lost that when Brendon finds him. So yeah, lol, Brendon ~shows him. Could be intense, as you say.

Idk. I think if the Spencer thing happens before he's reunited with Brendon, it would be better without *sex*. It could go the trajectory you're talking about, not planning anything but ending up there anyway, and maybe they kiss, maybe it even goes a bit (or significantly) further, they're taking it *painstakingly* slowly because obviously there are *issues*, but Ryan's trying, he's really trying to heal...and then Spencer's dad sells him, and he loses everything, and is torn apart all over again.

Hm, and then yeah, that could work well, 'cause it's crushed out of him enough that it doesn't interfere with bitterness and fury, but it would give him a reason to *try* with Brendon, rather than just deciding he's not interested in expressing feelings through sex. If he's had this minor positive sexual relationship in the past, there's a reason to *try*. That's a thought. So yeah, he could have this faint, crushed idea that it could conceivably be good, in some other universe, for people not like him.

Mmmmm.

[lolab.livejournal.com]

right, exactly. i don't really see actual sex with spencer. i'm thinking they get to the point of what i call "intimacy with orgasms," lol, lots of kissing, rubbing against each other, cuddling, eventually handjobs, maybe a BJ or something, but right at that point when ryan's starting to trust it, he gets sold. maybe spencer's dad finds out. :/ (which would work if ryan were bought for spencer's dad as opposed to spencer himself.)

it would be cool if they could run into spencer later or something, on their escape route. i just hate thinking of him only showing up once.

[j-plash.livejournal.com]

Yes. Exactly. Exactly. This - which would work if ryan were bought for spencer's dad as opposed to spencer himself - explain?

Yeah. They'd need somewhere to go, obviously, places to hide, and they could go at first to someone Jon knows or something, but they have to get out of Paris - there's a lot of people who they're dangerous to because of what they know, not just the people who owned Ryan but also the police who've been bribed, so there are a whole lot of corrupt police out to kill them. They have to get out of town, and far away. Jon doesn't know anyone away from Paris. Brendon pretty much knows no one full stop. Ryan's been enslaved for eight years...but there was Spencer. Ryan's terrified, but it's the *only* person any of them knows, and they have no money, no way to protect themselves, nowhere to go, and so they manage to track down Spencer (who's obv. six? years older now than he was when Ryan knew him and thus an adult and independent and all those important differences), and Spencer helps them.

[lolab.livejournal.com]

ah, i meant... if spencer's dad bought ryan for himself, as opposed to being all "here son, i gots youz a present." so ry would technically be mr. smith's slave, not spencer's. otherwise i'd have to go the whole cliched route of spencer being all "don't worry, i know you're here to ~pleasure me, but i'd never touch you that way... oh, that is, until we become BFFs and we both want it." meh.

yeah, i also thought jon could possibly be bden's business partner/associate/whatever, so bden drags him to paris and that's how jon ends up helping after bden's captured. tho jon would prolly just go to the polic... idk.

[j-plash.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Said most things in the other comment, but whatever way it works out, I think you're right, we don't want an 'until we both want it' thing, I think it has to be a 'the fact that Spencer wants it is irrelevant, Ryan is determined and talks him into it' thing. If that makes sense, lol.

Yeah, that could work too. Though Jon would prob need some kind of inside connection or there's no reason he'd be more successful at rescuing them than Brendon was...well, except for him being less made of fail XD Which is actually plenty of reason, lmao :D Hehehe. Poor Brendon :P So yeah, Jon could be from Brendon's side, Shane could fit in somewhere...Idk. It would make sense for someone from Brendon's side to exist/notice he's missing.

[lolab.livejournal.com]

right. i like the idea of spencer crushing on him and being so mortified by it, not wanting ryan to know, afraid of hurting him or making him uncomfortable. UGH PRECIOUS LITTLE 19th CENTURY SPENCE. ♥_♥

yeah. we can work out jon and shane later. i'd like them both in there. shane could be this sexy spanish dude with a hot accent. ;)

[j-plash.livejournal.com]

Yeeeeeesssss. SPENCER. (who is not locked in Jon's basement). Precious little 19th Century Spence is my *favourite*. I keep writing him stories, lol XD About after Ryan's taken. Oh Spencer. Spencer spencer spencer. So much love.

Yep. Shane is definitely a sexy Spanish dude with a hot accent XD